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Bush Flying vs. 705 Ops: Which is more 'Real' flying?
- Thread starter codysth
- Start date
They are both amazing and awful at the same time.
They are also both challenging and boring in their own ways.
I’ve flown with more than a few former Airbus captains who didn’t know basic attitude and power flying VFR or wondered where the aim point was on a snow covered gravel runway. And I’ve flown with bush guys who try and do everything themselves and get behind the automation only to turn it off and promptly make everything worse.
I’m neither bush nor airline and it’s mostly about the money at this point but what keeps me from going full airline is the fact I’ve got the best of both worlds. I like spacing out in cruise and I love skimming the treetops.
They are also both challenging and boring in their own ways.
I’ve flown with more than a few former Airbus captains who didn’t know basic attitude and power flying VFR or wondered where the aim point was on a snow covered gravel runway. And I’ve flown with bush guys who try and do everything themselves and get behind the automation only to turn it off and promptly make everything worse.
I’m neither bush nor airline and it’s mostly about the money at this point but what keeps me from going full airline is the fact I’ve got the best of both worlds. I like spacing out in cruise and I love skimming the treetops.
"Give a pilot a bag of gold and he'll complain how heavy it is."
In my career, I've found it challenging balancing lifestyle, money, opportunity and stability.
If money wasn't truly a factor, I'd be flying seaplanes in BC/YT. The autonomy, the community, the spectacular scenery, enough unpredictability to stay interesting (but not stressful) and immense job satisfaction.
That said, I had an amphib caravan job paying 130k (in Europe) and I still walked away. The operation was so incompentent they nearly put generator oil into a PT6. At some point, the risk outweighs the pay cheque - especially when it is risks you can't mitigate.
In my career, I've found it challenging balancing lifestyle, money, opportunity and stability.
If money wasn't truly a factor, I'd be flying seaplanes in BC/YT. The autonomy, the community, the spectacular scenery, enough unpredictability to stay interesting (but not stressful) and immense job satisfaction.
That said, I had an amphib caravan job paying 130k (in Europe) and I still walked away. The operation was so incompentent they nearly put generator oil into a PT6. At some point, the risk outweighs the pay cheque - especially when it is risks you can't mitigate.
I’d be interested to get the details on the many you met who went the other way, how many could that possibly be?A lot of pilots start in the bush and move to the airlines, but I’ve met many who went the other way. If money wasn't an issue, would you rather be hand-flying a Twin Otter in the mud or monitoring an autopilot in an A320?
Unless it’s a retirement gig, my suspicion is that it was not by choice for most of them, ie; fired or laid off, I’ve encountered many who came to the airlines and it didn’t matter how much they were paid. The most extreme example was a guy who was making 220k flying medevacs in Manitoba, week on, week off schedule and quit to make 50k at Jazz. The answer to the question was it didn’t matter how much they were paying, it’s not a lifestyle with longevity.
To be fair there are many types of bush flying but the common denominator is the type of support you get from them, once you get to the airlines, you realize how bad it was!
I was 14 years up North for a few operations and even though I was management for most of that time, the 7/30/60/90/365 is more of a suggestion for most of them, not while I was in charge but that also has ramifications, de-icing with a garden sprayer, multiple snags but don’t dare put that in the log book, min rest, sure. The list of common abuses is long and I have no disillusionment about how bad it really was, I would not go back by choice.
amphibcaravan
Student Pilot (Rank 2)
I share BCav8r’s curiosity in how many you’ve met that have gone from airlines to bush and what their circumstances were… Not to say there aren’t any, but I haven’t met them myself.
I love both of them in different ways. If money, schedule, benefits, ability to travel standby to see the world for cheap, and the damage to back and knees by ugly loads were no factor you could find me bombing around the north on floats. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find a magic wand to change the things I don’t like so I’ll be spending my career at a 705. I’ve been having a great time at the airlines so far, here’s hoping that continues!
I love both of them in different ways. If money, schedule, benefits, ability to travel standby to see the world for cheap, and the damage to back and knees by ugly loads were no factor you could find me bombing around the north on floats. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find a magic wand to change the things I don’t like so I’ll be spending my career at a 705. I’ve been having a great time at the airlines so far, here’s hoping that continues!
They are definitely out there.
The common most demographic outside of age related retirements I’ve met is ex-Cathay Pacific in the post-COVID era. C Scale is borderline at best because you have to live in HK and they no longer provide accommodation. Money is good but it goes as fast as it comes.
Second most common is Air Canada and WJ returns.. the former because of the horrible starting pay and YYZ base, the latter because of the long upgrades.. and one after they’ve tried to start again in Canada after being ex-pats.
BC/AB medevac, firefighting, and BC scheduled seaplane operations with good pay and good lifestyle and even passes. If your experience was 20 years ago your info is out of date. Nobody is flying clapped out airplanes in marginal conditions and living in squalid conditions doing rolling duty day or throwing bags or living all summer on the tanker base at these operations.
The common most demographic outside of age related retirements I’ve met is ex-Cathay Pacific in the post-COVID era. C Scale is borderline at best because you have to live in HK and they no longer provide accommodation. Money is good but it goes as fast as it comes.
Second most common is Air Canada and WJ returns.. the former because of the horrible starting pay and YYZ base, the latter because of the long upgrades.. and one after they’ve tried to start again in Canada after being ex-pats.
BC/AB medevac, firefighting, and BC scheduled seaplane operations with good pay and good lifestyle and even passes. If your experience was 20 years ago your info is out of date. Nobody is flying clapped out airplanes in marginal conditions and living in squalid conditions doing rolling duty day or throwing bags or living all summer on the tanker base at these operations.
amphibcaravan
Student Pilot (Rank 2)
Interesting, thanks ‘Bob’! I heard of some relatively new hires who left AC after the latest contract was ratified, but they went back to Flair and other 705’s. Any idea if any expats that were working in the Middle East returned to the bush as well? I heard they were the first on the chopping block when COVID hit and were the last to be offered their jobs back, and when they were it was at year 1 pay rates (All secondhand info, so correct me if I heard wrong).
I know of at least one medevac outfit that was still running rolling duty days post-COVID, not sure if they still are.
I was pretty disappointed to see Harbour’s latest post for the Turbo Otter advertising pay that works out to $36,925.20 - $51,643.80 for a season that runs May 1 - Sept 30 based in YVR, depending on where you fall in their payscale. Even at the top end of that range, I hope whoever ends up taking that job has a good winter gig…
One last question: do you know of any float operators other than Tindi and Harbour that have passes on other carriers? Would be great to see more of our friends in the bush get access to those, although I guess the hang up is that it has to be reciprocal and the lack of float scheds might make that difficult.
I know of at least one medevac outfit that was still running rolling duty days post-COVID, not sure if they still are.
I was pretty disappointed to see Harbour’s latest post for the Turbo Otter advertising pay that works out to $36,925.20 - $51,643.80 for a season that runs May 1 - Sept 30 based in YVR, depending on where you fall in their payscale. Even at the top end of that range, I hope whoever ends up taking that job has a good winter gig…
One last question: do you know of any float operators other than Tindi and Harbour that have passes on other carriers? Would be great to see more of our friends in the bush get access to those, although I guess the hang up is that it has to be reciprocal and the lack of float scheds might make that difficult.
